ALSMY Earnings Call Transcriptbeta

Executives: Henri Poupart-Lafarge - Chairman and Chief Executive Officer Laurent Martinez - Chief Financial Officer

Analysts: Gael De-Bray - Deutsche Bank Akash Gupta - JPMorgan Martin Wilkie - Citi Jonathan Mounsey - Exane BNP Paribas James Moore - Redburn Alfred Glaser - Oddo Alok Katre - Société Générale

Henri Poupart-Lafarge: Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. Welcome to Third Annual Half Year Results Conference Call. I will take over presentation together with Laurent Martinez, our CFO, and then we'll be at your disposal for any questions. So let's start by a short introduction. In the snapshot, the results of the third half are very sound on all fronts, I must say. First, there has been a very strong commercial momentum, I mean, you know it, you have seen notably the two very large orders, that -- I will come back to that, both in Montréal and in France for the TGV of the future. We had solid operational performance, solid execution of our backlog, which has enabled us to reach €4 billion of sales in line with our expectations and in line with our yearly guidance. And the adjusted EBIT stands at €285 million, so a margin of 7.1%, which is slightly above the guidance and frankly, which probably you have noticed, I know that we have slightly changed the wording of our guidance for the full year from up to 7% to around 7% taking into account the fact that we're already above this 7% head mark. Free cash flow, positive at €172 million, as you know this is a very volatile number, but again, during this first half, we have stabilized our working capital, which is, as you know, our long-term target. The net debt is at €280 million, stable, because the free cash flow has been used for the payment of the dividend and you'll be happy about that as well as the acquisition of additional shares in TMH. The equity stands at €4 billion. Traditionally, every two years, we have an update of the market done by UNIFE, you know the association of rail manufacturers. So this has been released in September, so you probably all know the numbers. A few takeaways, it has been confirmed over the recent past and it's going to be confirmed in the coming years as well that our business is relatively independent from any macroeconomic cycle, and the traffic -- the passenger traffic, whether we talk about mainline or urban are going steadily and actually, faster for urban, as we know, than for mainline, but still steadily year-after-year. Only freight is impacted by the economic growth, and you see a more cyclical evolution of the traffic in freight, but the good news is that over the last years, we have seen a rebound after downturn in 2015, 2016. This has been translated into regular growth of our market, both geographically and by products, I mean, what is noticeable is that all regions are growing and all product lines are growing. In the Riyadh growth is 2.6%, which I think is our capital goods industry is very sound growth. And as you know, our target is to overachieve these growth rates, which we have done over the last years, and you know that over the last year -- the last 5 years, we have grown by more than 5% per year and which is more or less doubling the growth height of the industry. By region or by product line, we expect rebound in Middle East, Africa, after some slow years in 2015, 2017 due to the oil crisis, as you know. This is a slow rebound but we expect it to come. Asia-Pacific is mainly influenced by China and Southeast Asia and we have continues growth. But again, so-called mature markets in North America and Europe are continuing to grow on the back of environmental concern and general movement of the mobility towards sales mobility and electrical mobility. In terms of growth rate byproduct, there is nothing particular to say except that it's very even growth rate across all product lines. The trend towards turnkey is confirmed. We are still very large number of projects, which come in the form of turnkey packages, it all including rolling stock, signaling, infrastructure. This is particularly true in Middle East, Africa, and it's clear that we expect rebound in Africa or these kind of projects. As so in Latin America, we also expect rebound. But it's also true in Asia depending on the countries, and -- for example, in Taiwan, we're talking about system projects as well. In Southeast Asia, there are some system projects, which are more diverse in Asia, but there are some turnkey projects in these countries as well. So just coming back on our 2020 strategy. So you remember the 5 pillars of the 2020 strategy, starting with the customer-focused solutions, the innovation, the operational excellence and something on people. So in terms of customer-focused organization, I mean, you remember that we have put in place an organization which is geographical organization in order to face the customers with necessary means to answer to his requests. The consequence of that is continuous growth of the company and again, this first half has been particularly buoyant in terms of orders intake at $7.1 billion, I think this is a record high level for 6 months period leaving to -- leading, sorry, to a record high level of backlog of €38.1 billion as well. In terms of geographies, of course, six months is always influenced heavily by large orders, so it's not a surprise that Europe has a high share of the order intake. This is, again, related to the very high speed, and it's no surprise that rolling stock is also taking the lion's share of the orders intake, also related to the ISP, but I will comment some more orders next slide. If you look at the largest order, which have been booked during this half year, so again, in Canada and in France. But we have also some noticeable order, even if they are smaller, like in Germany for the tram because it has been very long time since Alstom has not penetrated the German market for trams. So this is a new market for us. In Norway, there has been a large red signaling of the Norwegian network, and we have been ordered all onboard equipment for this network. In Italy, we continue to record some new Pendolino, and this is on the back of an excellent relationship with NTV, the private operator in Italy and this is a very specific relationship because this is a private operator, so it's a very partnership type of approach. We have been recorded new locomotives in Morocco, so we're continuing our extension in Middle East, Africa, even though, as I said, the Middle East market is probably much slower than it used to be. In Asia-Pacific, our first entry in Mumbai, with Line 3 in Mumbai, very important order for us. We have been very successful in India. We are present in all metros in India, the eight metros which are today running in India we are present. But it sad to recognize that in Mumbai we are not as present as in the other ones, so with this Line 3 we make significant entry in this market in Mumbai. And as you probably know there will be 42 cities which have projects of metros in India so more to come. Taiwan, as I said, we have been awarded a system project in Taiwan. This is not totally a new market for us, we have also tram project in [indiscernible] as well close to Taipei. So we have some activities in Taiwan, but it has been a long time since we are not the metro. Australia, we are continuing to record some orders, particularly in Sydney, where we have we been awarded three years ago the metro and these are extension of the metros and the maintenance of the metros. Just to focus on the various peak trends, we have discussed a lot about it, I mean, this is not something which is very usual. Last time we developed new various peak trends. This was 30 years ago, actually in the '90s. In 1996, actually, we have delivered the first train of the last generation. So this is an innovative concept where we have upgraded all the technological bricks in order to have a train which is much more efficient, both from an economic standpoint, from an operational standpoint and from an environmental standpoint, but I think it's extremely nice partnership as well with SNCF. It has been done in total partnership with SNCF. So I think it's a good example and good success. Our classical indicators, nothing has really changed this half year. Rolling stock continues to represent more or less 40%, here we talk 43%. You know that we have a target of 40% so we are in the ballpark. Service is going nicely, signaling after one year of difficulties, when you're going to have the order intake, we are rebounding, and system, of course, is going so very faster on the back of Dubai and Riyadh, in particular. So you see that on the next slide out of the 4 billion, so we have large growth in rolling stock on the back of, I would say, the regional and ISP trains in Europe and also PRASA, which is ramping up. System, it was the same last year, we announced it, clearly, Dubai, Lusail as well and Riyadh are in early phase of project execution. Service is growing quite a lot, again, particularly based on the U.K. and in Italy, but the order intake, it's said to [indiscernible] order intake of service is very good this half year, and we continue to be very good in the year. So we have in the recent years book-to-bill each year of 1.5, 1.6 of service, which is an excellent book-to-bill. A few nice pictures of some of our projects. So just to confirm that we are progressing if there was any doubt, so the first trains of Dubai 2020 are being manufactured in [indiscernible]. It will be, frankly, the 2020 project, which is being delivered, is a very, very important project and it has been -- it will be a world record in terms of delays of speed of execution of such a project in the world. Lusail, we are also delivering the trams in Qatar. R&D innovation, extremely important. As I have said in the past, it's -- this improved profitability cannot be on the expense of decrease in R&D, on the contrary, we should continue to, at least, spend in percentage the same amount and clearly, an absolute value, an increased amount in R&D. We have now completed the full renewal of our rolling stock platforms. We started with tram, then the metro, the regional trains and now we are with very high speed, so all that is now being done, and we are extending these platforms by extending the different possibilities and different sub, if I may call them, they'll have sub-platforms, for example, the Frankfurt tram is in steel and not in aluminum, it's a classical place for Alstom, so we are progressively extending the platforms that we have renewed. We continue to invest heavily in predictive maintenance, and in all what is [indiscernible], our digital programs and this is paying off. We have huge investment in these areas. Just two innovations, which have been announced during this first half. The first one, and you probably have heard about it, which is in Ireland. It's interesting because it's both, I would say, targeting the environmental performance of the trains, of course, with hydrogen trains. It's also something which is not purely digital, I mean, it's one of the core technology, which is attraction. And I think it's important to say that we are not -- we are investing a lot in digital, but we are also investing in our core technologies. And this is hydrogen traction, but we are also investing in the classical traction systems. I would say, on the part of the spectrum, we are also launching Station one. This is the first online marketplace for the railway sector. There was no -- there is none today, no marketplace dedicated to the railway sector for operators in the world to be able to purchase parts, components, to all type of suppliers, and this is dedicated technical part marketplace, so it's not officially launched, but it will be officially launched in the coming weeks now, but we have announced its launch recently at InnoTrans, which is our fair -- yearly fair, every two years in Berlin. In terms of EBIT, so 7.1 margin. Of course, if you compare with last year, IFRS -- restricted for IFRS 9 and 15, you will see huge increase of our EBIT, and on the back of the huge volume increase, as compared to last year, under IFRS 15, again. But fundamentally, our action plans are paying off and we continue to improve the execution of our programs and our projects. Classical levers, which we have launched a few years ago. On sourcing, for example, we have changed the way we interact with our suppliers by moving more and more towards frame contrast, towards partnerships for innovation, also towards global sourcing, benefiting from our global footprint, now we have 50% of our purchase, which have done in local countries, so we have improved significantly our global vision of the sourcing. One particular aspect, it was key to Alstom strategy, which is a Indian [indiscernible], because India is not only here for -- to serve the Indian market, and it's successful to serve the Indian market as being seen with a contract in Mumbai. But it's also a strong base to serve the world. And in 18 months, we have doubled the number of employees in India from 1,800 to 3,500. And today the largest engineering centers both for signaling and for rolling stock are based in Bangalore, so this has proved to be a very, very successful strategy from an export standpoint. As you probably know, we are exporting from India to China for the metro, and we're exporting from India to Montreal as well for the metro. And we're exporting a lot of traction from Coimbatore to the rest of the world. So it's -- this Indian strategy, which we have launched a few years ago is extremely successful. Here as well in terms of project execution, just to highlight some of our key execution and key milestone being achieved. At PRASA, we have inaugurated the factory officially, so now it's in full production delivering the trains, so it's now -- it's a question of [indiscernible] of the supply chain, and first, but, I would say, so far so good. It's, of course, a very complex project. It's, of course, a new country, a lot of challenges, but it's progressing very well. And on Riyadh as well, progressing very well. All the trains have now been delivered in Riyadh, so they're now tested in order to be ready for the service -- operational service. So thank you, and I will hand over to Laurent who'll explain to you more of the financial highlights.

Laurent Martinez: So good morning, everyone, and I would be very pleased to meet some of you in the days and weeks to come. So starting with a short introduction. All the numbers that we are presenting now are under IFRS 9 and 15 standards. So going straight below the adjusted EBIT. So we have, as you see, €34 million of restructuring charges, driven by the footprint rationalization, notably in the UK and Brazil. On the other charges, we have included amortization of the intangible assets, integration costs related to the business combinations, such as I said, GE Signalling and Nomad, which we reduced to €70 million, and we have the transaction costs related to the Siemens Alstom deal, which amounted this half year for €36 million. In terms of financial results, we decreased debt to €46 million compared to the €53 million of last year, fully consistent with the decrease in our gross financial debt resulting, as you know, from the repayment of our €272 million bonds in October '17. And of course, going forward, our financial results should continue to decrease as outstanding bonds will be paid out. We recorded as well an income tax charges of €12 million for our first half, corresponding to an effective tax rate of 7%. This effective tax rate has been lower due to different tax assets recognized on produced tax losses carry forward and as well some reversal of tax provision. If we exclude these items, our effective tax rate would have reached 26%, which is very much what we expect to be our normalized level, which is closer to 25% going forward. Finally, the change in net income from equity investments amounted to €161 million related to our Energy JVs 99 and as well as good performance of TMH with €49 million. So in complement, we have, as you see, recorded an exceptional net income from discontinued operation of €245 million, leading us to a full net income group share at €563 million in our first half. Moving to the free cash flow, and you know that this is a key priority for us as a management, benefiting from our -- impact of our cash focused program, €172 million altogether with a change of working cap limited to €10 million. However, as Henri mentioned, potential volatilities on the periods remains. Free cash flow has been also impacted by some phasing on the financial cash out and as well on the transformation CapEx, which I will detail you. Now moving to next page. So on the CapEx side of the equation, we invested €85 million intangible assets in order to continue our modernization of our existing facilities and strengthen our global footprint. In terms of transformation CapEx, we spent €52 million, while we continue the construction of manufacturing of sites, notably in India, in South Africa, where our Gibela factories was integrated end of October, and you see nice pictures on this slide and as well as the extension of owner in the U.S. So all together, at the end of September '18, our accumulated amount of transformation CapEx amounted to €212 million out of our €300 million that we have been communicated so far. Moving to the liquidity and the gross debt. We have a gross cash in hand of €1.8 million at the end of September '18. In addition of, I would say, variable €1.4 million of cash and equivalents. We have, as before, full €400 million revolving credit facilities maturing in June 2022, which is of course, fully undrawn. On the 2nd of October, you know that we have completed the transfer of all our interests in the three Energy JVs, Renewables, Grid and Nuclear to General Electric, and we received total cash payments of €2.6 billion as planned. Looking at outstanding bonds, which I mentioned before, €1.3 billion outstanding, end of September as the maturity of October '18 has been paid for sure and our next one are of around €300 million in July '19. Moving to the net debt, which has been reaching 280 million in September '18 compared to 255 million end of March '17, driven by our positive free cash flow evolution of 172 , the acquisition of 136 , mainly related to the TMH investment of 115; capital increase of 5 ; dividends payment of 84; and ForEx and other for '18. That leaves us to the equity bridge, with equity reaching €4 billion in September '18 from the 3.5 billion in March '18. So the key driver is obviously the net income, €560 million from limited variation on pension of 16 ; dividend paid to the shareholders of 78; share-based payments of 16; and some other evolution of 25 , which includes some 32 of currency translation adjustment and 60 of fair value adjustment on the Locotech investment. Thank you for your attention. I'd go back to Henri for the outlook.

Henri Poupart-Lafarge: Thank you, Laurent. So in terms of outlook, I said, again, of course, we confirm our guidance for this year, with sales around €8 billion. And we slightly upgrade the adjusted EBIT guidance from up to 7% to around 7% to allow us if we want to do better than 7%. In the medium-term, of course, we want to continue to outperform the market goals, as we have done over the last years consistently year after year, continued to improve the profitability. And again, cash generation is a key focus, and as you know, for us, it translates into a positive evolution of our working capital, or at least the stability of our working capital, which is a key target for the company. Of course, in the meantime, as you know, we are building this fantastic project with Siemens to create a leader in world transportation, and this is progressing very satisfactorily. The project, I mean you know this schedule, so we are on time and we are in the discussion of antitrust clearances. We have 27 jurisdictions and it's progressing this extremely well worldwide. Of course, one of the most important one is Europe, and we are progressing as well with Europe. Just in case you want to ask some questions, don't expect me to answer to any detailed question on these discussions. These are ongoing discussions, and we are still very confident to close this deal during the first half of 2019. So I would say that all milestones are being reached exactly in line with our expectations. Now, we'll move to the Q&A. Are there any questions, probably?

Operator: [Operator Instructions] Your first question is coming from Gael De-Bray calling in from Deutsche Bank. Please go ahead.

Gael De-Bray: The question I have relates to the margin performance. I mean, if we look at last year's performance, which is stated under IFRS 15, it seems that the H2 revenue was about 20% higher than H1 at close to €4 billion, but with a similar margin of 5.4%. So now if I take your guidance for the year, you expect sales of about €8 billion, so implicitly, €4 billion again for H2, so that would be stable year-on-year. So I guess my question is what are going to be the margin drivers in the second half of the year if sales are indeed only flattish?

Henri Poupart-Lafarge: Yes, Gael. On this one, of course, this retreatment of IFRS 15, I mean as we have said, is not totally even in the year. So there have been some -- clearly, some quarter which are more impacted by the IFRS 15 retreatment than others. And it of course blurs a little bit the comparison one year -- year-on-year. It's true that during the first half, the volume has played a great role. During the second half, you could have a mix between the volume and improved cost margin.

Operator: We'll now go to Akash Gupta calling in from JP Morgan. Please go ahead.

Akash Gupta: I have a question on antitrust. I know you are not going to say much. But the question I have is that whenever we see headlines on European Commission concern on the deal, can you address that only through offering certain divestments? Or can you also address them through changing your market practice or like, let's say, behavior in a sense?

Henri Poupart-Lafarge: Again, I'm not going to enter into the discussions that we have with the European Commission. I think we are working very constructively with the European Commission. First, we explained the rationale of the deal and what the impact of the deal on the market, and the positive impact that the deal will have on the market and for our customers, because we do that for customers and employees and, ultimately, for the passengers. In terms of discussions, frankly, on -- or the details of the discussions, we will come back to you when discussions are finalized.

Operator: We'll now go to Martin Wilkie of Citi. Please go ahead.

Martin Wilkie: It's Martin from Citi. Just coming back to the point on IFRS 15 and the phasing, I think when you first talked about the transition to the new standard, you mentioned that some revenue that had been previously recorded would essentially get booked again just because of the way that the milestones now fall and you have more coming at the end of the project. Given that you've -- under IFRS 15, you're now recording some of that later, is the bulk of that benefit coming this fiscal year? So obviously, we're trying to work out how much of the year-on-year change is an accounting effect and how much of it is a genuine uplift in your business? But if you could just sort of quantify how much of that, the sort of the earnings that you will record once again under IFRS 15 falls this year and how much of it comes over the coming years?

Henri Poupart-Lafarge: Maybe Laurent will take this one.

Laurent Martinez: Just to remind a couple of numbers. So in terms of H1, it is a restatement of the revenues last year, moved from 3.7, IFRS 11 to 3.3 under IFRS 15. On a full year basis, so the restatement is around €600 million and from €7.9 billion to €7.3 billion. To your point, Martin, in terms of the phasing, this is a very complex equation because this has led to a number of restatements on our full portfolio of projects. So it would be fair to say that the phasing will be on a couple of years and not only on the 2018, 2019 exercise. Also to your point, there will be no -- there is no catch-up impact. I mean, so it's a backlog impact, so some of the very few sales -- some of the sales, sorry, which have been recorded last year under the older norms have been recorded this year. So there is elements that you say. But older sales, which should have been recorded under the old form this year, would be actually recorded a year after. So there is a kind of backlog impact more than just a switch from one year to another year. Next question?

Operator: We'll now go to Jonathan Mounsey calling in from Exane BNP Paribas.

Jonathan Mounsey: Just really related to that last one. So first of all, just to be clear, is IFRS restatement distorting your organic sales growth in H1? And if not, just to understand what's happened. So you reported 17% organic sales growth in Q1, I think. So I guess the underlying rate must have accelerated something perhaps north of 25% in Q2. And if this is a genuine non-distorted organic number that we've had in H1, what happens next year? I mean, your guiding to a target of kind of 5% per annum. You've done 23% in the first half of next year. In FY '20 and H1, I know the order book supports growth, but given this comp, are we likely to see organic sales growth declines in H1 of next year?

Henri Poupart-Lafarge: I think it's a tricky question that you are asking, because we tend to think that sales growth is a physical indicator, where it's not totally a physical indicator. So the change in accounting puts a spotlight on different, I would say, activities of Alstom. Under the old norms, we were counting the delivery to the customers. Under the new norms, we are counting the production of Alstom. So of course, there is a link between the two, but not necessarily at the same speed and for the same contracts. So it's -- one was, again, the milestones, so it was really the physical delivery to the customer. So you could have big, large bumps because of large milestones when you are delivering it free to a customer or something like that. Whereas in the new norm, you are counting your production and your supplies. So in essence, the new norm is more related to the actual growth of the production and therefore shows a good image of the ramp up of the company, while the old one was more in line with, I would say, the way project we are structured. Now that we are in this new world, I would say, clearly the new norms shows that this year, there is a huge increase of activity within the company, which is in line with previous order intake and backlog. Next year, we should not see again the same kind of growth rate and we should come back to the guidance that we have given, the outlook that we have given, which we confirm. So this year is a little bit specific. I would say, if you forget about the retreatment, if you just live in the IFRS 15 world, it's a little bit specific with a huge production. But you would have had, I would say, lower growth rates under the old norm -- or under the new norm if you were to come back a few years ago and the ramp up would have been -- because when you do a -- and that's what is explained by law. We have a huge ramp up of high utilities. The first years of project is usually dedicated to engineering, and therefore produces some sales under the old norms, but very little sales under the new norms. So if you were to project Alstom trajectory as it is -- as it has been experienced over the last years, it would have been, under the new norms, a much lower ramp up, and this year, you can see, very strong ramp up. The old norms, because it gave more importance to the milestones of engineering than the new norms, has actually delivered to Alstom results a much smoother ramp up. This is what explains the difference.

Operator: We'll now move to Mr. James Moore calling in from Redburn.

James Moore: It's on free cash flow. But can I just step back to that last one and say, did you look at what the margin and organic sales growth would have done in the first half under the old accounting? And if you did, could you give us a rough flavor? But my question's on the free cash flow. Your transformation CapEx, do you expect to hit the 300 million this fiscal year? And on financial cash outflows, you've mentioned phasing, and the cash tax in the first half seemed quite high. Could you help us a little bit with how you see financial cash and cash tax for the full year?

Henri Poupart-Lafarge: Laurent will take it.

Laurent Martinez: Yes. On the margin, we do not entertain at all any, I would say, what could be the result of H1 '18, '19 IFRS 11. We did not get into this analysis at all, James. So to your point on free cash flow, which is as I said, a key focus of the management. Related to the transformation CapEx, we have spent so far €212 million, as I said. We are very much on track in terms of industrial progress. So overall, I would say that this transformation in CapEx projects is fully on track. To your point on the financial cash out for -- and the cash tax cash out for the second half, indeed, James, there will be some phasing and we are expecting a slight, I would say, acceleration of the cash out for the financial cash out in the second half. While on the tax cash out on the contrary, we are expecting positive phasing, i.e, less cash out in the second half versus the first half.

Operator: And we'll go to Mr. Alfred Glaser calling in from Oddo. Please go ahead.

Alfred Glaser: I just wanted to ask you about the profit evolution. You posted an extremely strong margin growth in H1, and you slightly revised after the full-year guidance. What's your view on the margin going forward into next year and maybe the year after? How do you view your potential for further margin improvement?

Henri Poupart-Lafarge: Yes, Alfred. Yes, we have, on the outlook for the year, as I said, that we have upgraded our guidance from up to, to around. So we are already at 7.1. So we are already in this around 7% territory. So that gives you the answer to what we expect for the second half. On the medium-term, we continue to target an improvement of the profitability as we have recorded in the past years. And frankly, it's not theory, it's on the back of the improved margin contained in our backlog. We continue to record orders with improving margin month after month or quarter after quarter. And not only the volume of backlog is at a record high, but as well the margin included in this backlog. So it sustained gradual improvement of our margin. But the gross margin, as you know, the gross margin of our backlog, it takes time, and we discussed the past. You know that [indiscernible] some of this margin upgrade is due to service maintenance, which is, as I said, going nicely. But of course, orders in maintenance are translated into sales very gradually, so it takes time for the gross margin to improve. Then of course you have the volume impact and the cost structure, which is directly impacting the yearly margins.

Operator: We'll go now to Alok Katre calling in from Société Générale. Please go ahead.

Alok Katre: This is Alok Katre filling in for Alastair from SocGen. Just one question from my side. Perhaps could you help us understand a bit more on how you're organized in your businesses across regions, and particularly in case of the signaling unit. Just wondered if that's split cleanly at the country level? Or is it a bit more closely aligned or intertwined with the other units? And I'm just thinking about factories, sales organization, the supply chain, et cetera. So signaling versus the rest.

Henri Poupart-Lafarge: Yes and no. The basic project development and platform development is managed in different units, not necessarily sites. I mean, we can share a building. All that, of course, is different engineering capabilities, so it can be in the same building, which is usually managed differently with a different manager. However, there are a lot of commonalities with infrastructure, in installation, management of suppliers and some of the groundwork. So some of our units, when you talk about one side with the manager, they are dedicated both to signaling and to infrastructure. It can happen, particularly again in units which are not responsible for product development, but which are responsible for the installation of our product on the ground. So we have [indiscernible]. So we can report the sales. But it's true that in terms of some of other indicators, it can be mixed locally. Okay, I think there is no other questions. Okay. So if there is no other question, just to thank all of you for your attention. Just last points. If you look at the agenda first, we'll talk again on January 17 for the Q3 orders and sales, and May 7 for the full year results. As you can see on the contact part of the slide, there have been slight changes. So Julian is still here to serve you, of course, but Selma has decided to work for her grocery shop. So we'll -- she will move, and we will welcome Julien Morel -- would take over her beginning of December. Thank you, everybody and talk to you very soon. Bye-bye.